Conversation with an Atheist. Murder is Wrong.

By Jon Kauffman

I watched Ray Comfort’s excellent film “The Fool.”

Ray is the banana man. Atheists have used his standup banana routine to turn Ray into a fool. The banana gave Ray many opportunities to present the gospel and to hold discussions with atheists.

This is a good thing, however, in my opinion, Ray Comfort could greatly improve the effectiveness of his wonderful movie by removing 30 seconds from the film.

Peace Dove

Ray has spoken out many times against abortion.

Ray interviewed atheist Thunderfoot and spoke very strongly against violence, especially abortion, as a moral wrong. He says we must not murder.

During the interview Thunderfoot says that murder is contingent on the circumstance and he has a view similar to Ray’s.

Ray claims his position is different. Is it different? Ray weakly claims, while presenting no Biblical evidence, that he is willing to kill in self-defense and to protect his family. He says it is alright to kill in those circumstances and that is his conviction.

Not because Jesus taught it, but because it is his conviction. If he would cut those 30 seconds weakly defending Christian violence, he would greatly increase the effectiveness of the movie.

With his statement about violent self-defense, does Ray Comfort hold atheists and pro-abortion Christians to a different standard than he holds for himself?

Ray Comfort holds Pro-Abortion Christians to a High Standard.

The pro-abortion Christian believes he is helping women and feels in his heart that this is true. He has conviction! He has used hyperbole such as “10,000 women die every year from back alley abortions” to defend his position.

A pro-abortion Christian may say a woman is defending herself (self-defense) when she has an abortion.

A pro-abortion Christian may quote the Bible to defend his position.

Nothing in the Bible specifically says that abortion is wrong. However, a pro-life position can be inferred from many Biblical passages and from the teachings of Jesus. If we look at the writings of early Christians, we can see that they held a strong pro-life position.

Ray Comfort Holds Himself to a Lower Standard for Violent Self-defense:

Mr. Comfort claims that just because he feels a personal conviction that killing in self-defense is acceptable, then he can kill in self-defense. Mr. Comfort does not use the teachings of Jesus to defend his conviction that murder is acceptable for self-defense.

Many Christians feel in their hearts that violence by Christians is OK. They also have conviction. They may use hyperbole to defend their position. “What if a man broke into my house and was raping my daughter or What about Hitler?”

Unlike the pro-life position, there are a multitude of Biblical passages to directly support the nonviolent position. Many other Biblical passages infer that violence is wrong. There are also many writings from early church leaders teaching pacifism.

Even Martin Luther, a supporter of violence by the state, claimed personal self-defense was wrong.

Why is it acceptable for Ray Comfort to resort to moral relativity?

The Example of Jesus

Jesus said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26,27

Stoning of Stephen

Stephen was the first Christian Martyr. Shortly before Stephen’s death, 3,000 men came to know Christ. If Jesus had taught violence was acceptable for self-defense, why didn’t these 3,000 men come to rescue Stephen?

The Stoning of St Stephen, Annibale Carracci, 1560-1609

The Early Church

During the first 300 years of Christianity, the Roman government tried to wipe out the Christians in a way similar to the way Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews.

In 64 AD, using the fire in Rome as an excuse, Nero severely persecuted the Christians, trying to wipe them out.

About 300 AD the Diocletian Persecution took place. This was the most severe Roman persecution against the Christians. Several emperors during this time attempted to wipe out Christianity.

Throughout the years in between these great persecutions, sporadic persecution of Christians often occurred.

These early Christian died as martyrs and did not use violence to protect themselves. The reason they died is not because they ran out of bullets or swords. These Christians died like sheep.

The Christian Martyrs’ Last Prayer, by Jean-Léon Gérôme (1883) PD-US

Origen said “Nowhere does He teach that it is right for His own disciples to offer violence to anyone, however wicked. For He deemed the killing of any individual to be against His laws which were divine in origin. If Christians had owed their origins to a rebellion, they would not have adopted laws of so exceedingly mild a character. These laws do not even allow them on any occasion to resist their persecutors, even when they are called to be slaughtered as sheep.” Origen, Against Celsus, book 3 Chapter 7, about 250 AD.

United States

It seems many Christians think that the US military can do no wrong. We killed 1.2 million innocent men, women and children bombing Japan during World War II. Many Christians claim that was self-defense and therefor OK.

Why do some Christians turn to violence?

Do some Christians turn to violent self-defense out of fear? One source says the Bible says 366 times “Do Not Fear.”

Are we afraid that Jesus will not protect us? Are we afraid that if we die like Jesus, at the hands of violent men Jesus will not use it for good? Are we afraid that Jesus will not make the situation right and bring about justice in the future if we die without fighting? Jesus promised to wipe away every tear when we reach heaven. Why can’t we trust him?

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them… 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:16b & 18 NIV

Good Bye

After an interview with Laurence Krause, Laurence and Ray say good bye. Ray explains that good bye is a contraction for “God be With Thee.”

If Ray Comfort can be a fool for Christ’s sake, maybe I can be a fool too?

I highly recommend Ray Comforts film, “The Fool”

What should a Christian do when Hitler comes?  What About Hitler?

Was it acceptable for Christians to kill 1.2 million Japanese civilians?
Hiroshima and Mass Murder?

Ray Comfort says we have the right to self-defense. Keith Giles wrote a Christian Bill of Rights. See it here: “Christian Bill of Rights.” Pastor Giles did not include violent self-defense as a right and I agree.

See reasons that others have given to support violence by Christians: Reasons Christians Give to Say Violence by Christians is Legitimate

All My Posts (Links)

Copyright © 2020 by Jon Kauffman. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted when used to further the Kingdom of God. Permission is gladly given to re-blog this post.

Author: Jon

Jon Kauffman graduated from Goshen College, earning a BA in Religion. Jon attended a Mennonite Church while growing up and currently attends the Salvation Army Church. Jon works as a drafter at TrueNorth Steel, Fargo, ND.

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