Atheists Fail to Defend Their Position
By Jon Kauffman
Atheism is Good for Christianity.
I think that the new atheists are a good thing for Christianity.
I have been trying to understand the atheist position for more than 40 years. I have asked questions of atheist friends on Facebook, commented on blogs and listened on Youtube. Sometimes I feel like we are talking past each other. Our world views and philosophy of science and life are quite different.
Discussing world view with atheists can expose weaknesses to my own arguments and perhaps help me dispose of illogical beliefs.
As I search for what is really true and examine the claims of atheists, I find my faith growing for several reasons. As I work through their arguments it becomes more obvious to me that the Christian world view has very good logical support. When we consider scientific evidence, philosophical evidence and theological evidence, I strongly believe it fits the evidence better than any other world view.
I have challenged several atheists to give me good reasons for why I should not be a Christian. To this point they have failed.
I think the debate between Christians and atheists is a very good thing. I want to know what is true. I am willing to consider arguments from everyone. I think this debate has helped many others strengthen their faith as well.
If atheists are making a case for their position, it gives others who do not believe a chance to be honest. I think it is wrong for those who believe to be forced to be taught an unwelcome atheist position. It is also a bad thing when an atheist is forced to pretend he is Christian when he is not.
Atheists Fail to Defend Their Position.
Atheists have failed to support their position in a way I find convincing.
I have asked numerous atheists about the resurrection of Jesus. A very common answer I receive is that no evidence exists for the resurrection. I know from my own research that very good evidence exists for the resurrection of Jesus. I have never received a good factually based argument from an atheist as to why I should not believe in the resurrection of Jesus.
I am looking for truth. Truth does not seem to be a high priority for many atheists. Jerry Coyne an atheist professor has used the illustration that if your grandmother is dying and is looking forward to seeing Jesus, we don’t need to hurt her feelings by telling her that she will not see Jesus. If I am dying, I want to know all the truth I can know. I want to know as much as possible about the afterlife. I do not want the doctor to tell me I am not dying if I am dying. Many parents of fatally ill children do not tell them they are dying. When I was a child if I had been dying, I would have wanted to know.
Some atheists avoid any information that does not conform to their world view. Many archeologists claim that the exodus occurred about 1250 BC. Then they say that because evidence does not exist in Egypt at 1250 BC then the Exodus did not occur. I don’t know why they claim the exodus happened in 1250 B.C. In my limited study of archeology I have found no good evidence for holding the view that the exodus occurred in 1250 B.C.
However, the Bible says that the exodus occurred about 1450 BC and we do find evidence for the exodus in Egypt at that time. I was discussing facts about the Exodus with an atheist, I brought up a piece of evidence. The atheist asked if that evidence came from a Christian. I said yes, he said he would not take the evidence seriously because it came from a Christian. Was this atheist serious about searching for truth?
I am willing to listen to truth even if it does not conform to my world view or if comes from someone that I disagree with in many other areas. Maybe I need to tweak my world view and I welcome a more truthful world view.
Atheism seems to require a materialist world view. I was discussing the scientific evidence for near death experiences and the evidence for a spiritual world with one atheist. She said they are all liars. Really? We also have scientific evidence from deathbed experiences to consider. Avoiding scientific evidence found by studying near death experiences and deathbed experiences seems to be another case of avoiding evidence that does not fit their world view.
We need a philosophy of science to determine how to incorporate science into our lives. We need a philosophical framework to hold a world view such as atheism or Christianity. I was trying to make that point with one atheist and she said she doesn’t need philosophy to know that God does not exist. Really?
Unfortunately, Stephen Hawking’s had many disparaging words about philosophy. It is unfortunate that such a brilliant scientist would have such a confused view about philosophy.
Science must be subservient to philosophy and philosophy must be subservient to theology. I plan to address this issue in a future post.
I have not heard convincing evidence from atheists that miracles do not occur.
Many atheists claim that science proves God is unnecessary. I have asked atheists for any proven scientific theories that bring Christianity into question. The response has always been silence. They seem to worship science but cannot use it to support their positions. Curious.
Far from disproving Christianity, I think the evidence that science provides strengthens the case for Christianity.
I wonder if some atheists are atheist because of the evidence or because they hate Christianity. I have read blogs where an atheist will search for mistakes made by Christians or search for Christians who do not live by the teaching of Jesus. They write blog post after blog post tearing down these Christians. This in no way demonstrates Christianity is false. It would be much like pointing out the evils of Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union and claiming all atheists are evil and that Stalin disproves atheism.
I have some atheist friends whose friendly company I greatly enjoy. Finding a few Christian bad apples doesn’t fly in disproving Christianity.
In future blog posts I plan to discuss many of the above issues more thoroughly.
Copyright © 2022 by Jon Kauffman. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted when used to further the Kingdom of God. Permission is gladly given to re-blog this post.
Revised 8/16/2022
NONVIOLENT CHRISTIANS 
Clubschadenfruede said, “And now you lie about archaeologists in favor of a conspiracy theory. So, do tell about this evidence they are supposedly ignoring? Surely you can, right?”
You have claimed that I wrote something I did not write. There is no conspiracy. I think many archeologist are not aware of the great amount of evidence found for the Israelites in Egypt between 1850 BC and 1446 BC. Also many archeologists are not aware of the evidence of the mistiming of the Exodus commonly thought to be 1250 BC.
For example: The Berlin Pedestal quite convincingly demonstrates that the Exodus could not occur as late as 1250 BC.
Douglas Petrovich translated several early Semitic texts found in Egypt that were dated between 1842 BC and 1446 BC. They show clear evidence for Israelites living in Egypt both as free men and later as slaves.
I think quite possible most archeologist have not bothered to investigate evidence for Israel in Egypt because it is of no interest to them.
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Club Schadenfreude said, “Who are these archaeologists? Your problem is that most archaeologists don’t think the exodus never happened at all.”
Jon replied: Manfred Beitak is probably the most famous archeologist that I am aware of who has uncovered evidence of people from the area that is now Israel who meet the description of the Israelites in Egypt.
The Bible describes great wealth for the Israelites at the time of Joseph which can be dated about 1875 BC. Then there was a great multiplication and then slavery. These elements can be found in Egypt in Beitak’s sites and other sites around Egypt.
Beitak talks about the Carbon dating offset.
If we take carbon dating from items in Beitak’s finds and consider the offset, we find that the date matches the date of 1446 BC for the Exodus found in the Bible.
1 King 6:1 says that Solomon began building the temple 480 years after the Exodus, which place the Exodus at 1446 BC.
If we consider the Carbon Offset mentioned by Beitak and use that for dating the conquering of Jericho we find that the dates match.
So we have evidence in Egypt for the Exodus and Evidence in Israel for Joshua’s conquests.
I find it interesting that many Archeologists claim that the Exodus happened in 1250 BC. They then say the Exodus did not happen because there is no evidence for the Exodus in 1250 BC.
That would be like a historian claiming that Ronald Reagan was born 1n 1980 and then claiming he did not exist because there is no evidence for his birth in 1980.
If we look to the date February 6, 1911 we do find evidence of Ronald Reagan’s birth.
Why not start with the date that the evidence for Israel is found in Egypt and see if it matches the Bible text?
I plan to write more about this in future blog posts.
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“I have not heard convincing evidence from atheists that miracles do not occur.”
not up to us to disprove miracles. It is up to you to show that they do occur.
Unsurprisingly, you can’t.
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ClubSchadenfreude said, “not up to us to disprove miracles. It is up to you to show that they do occur. Unsurprisingly, you can’t.”
Jon replied: I have experienced miracles. I know they are real.
One scientific survey conducted by Barna Research found that “67% of Americans believe miracles are possible, but among well educated medical doctors 75% believe miracles are possible. 55% of US physicians have seen results in their patients that they would consider miraculous.”
I think that even meets David Hume’s stringent requirements for considering miracles real.
I will say a prayer asking God to show you a miracle, even you can believe.
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And yep, Jon still can’t show that any miracles have happened to him or anyone, ever.
Oh dear, people believe that there are miracles? Sorry, that doesn’t make them true. But nice appeal to popularity logical fallacy *and* an appeal to authority fantasy.
and Barna said “67% of Americans believe miracles are possible, but among well educated medical doctors 75% believe miracles are possible. 55% of US physicians have seen results in their patients that they would consider miraculous.”?
Funny how I can’t find that anywhere, not even on Barna’s website here: https://www.barna.com/research/americans-believe-supernatural-healing/
now where did you find that “quote”, Jon?
So, since your god has done nothing at all, you have a problem, Jon. Nothing has happened and yoru bible promises that you will get your prayer answered with what is prayed for, no exceptions or excuses, and answered quickly.
What’s the problem, Jon?
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clubschadenfreude said, “now where did you find that “quote”, Jon?”
Jon replied: Lee Strobel, The Case for Miracles, A journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural, Zondervan, 2018, Page 31.
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funny how it doesn’t appear to be on the Barna website or in their studies.
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Clubschadenfruede said, “funny how it doesn’t appear to be on the Barna website or in their studies.”
Jon replied: Yes I agree. I definitely need to check that out. I am putting that on my to do list. Thank you for pointing this out!
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clubschadenfreude says, “funny how it doesn’t appear to be on the Barna website or in their studies.”
I had the reference wrong. Here is a link to the survey.
https://www.worldhealth.net/news/science_or_miracle_holiday_season_survey/
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this is what is in your article “A national survey of 1,100 physicians, conducted by HCD Research and the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies of The Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City over the past weekend, found that 74% of doctors believe that miracles have occurred in the past and 73% believe that can occur today.
A national survey of 1,100 physicians, conducted by HCD Research and the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies of The Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City over the past weekend, found that 74% of doctors believe that miracles have occurred in the past and 73% believe that can occur today.
hmmm, from a seminary. Not surprising at all. And not one link to the actual supposed study? hmm, how convenient. Unsurprisingly, this is not offered anywhere except religious sites and a rather obscure site that claims to be about anti-aging. Now, why would they publish anything on religion? It’s also rather notable that articles about this supposed poll can’t agree on how many were polled. Was it 1100? 1400+?
and it would be at best 74% of these 1100 people surveyed. Out of how many doctors who exist? yep, no reason to think this study is valid at all.
you still have no evidence for your god or miracles at all. Belief in nonsense doesn’t mean nonsense exists.
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Club Schadenfruede said, “it would be at best 74% of these 1100 people surveyed. Out of how many doctors who exist? yep, no reason to think this study is valid at all.”
Jon replied: To obtain a scientifically accurate survey or poll about 1000 participants are required. At that point, the accuracy of the poll is based on how the questions are worded and how well the cross section of participants reflects the overall population. Surveying over 1100 people does not increase the accuracy of the poll or survey.
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Jon, belief in miracles doesn’t show thath miracles exist. I’m waiting for your evidence for those and evidence that you can do miracles since your bible says any true believer in christ can.
as for studies, you have 1100 people asked by a religious group if they believe in miracles. No explanation how they chose these people. In addition to a small sample group, you have this problem.
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oh and still no evidence for the miracles you claim to have experienced. Hmm, wonder why this god can’t do miracles for those people with obvious injuries/illnesses?
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Funny how atheists defend their positions often, including me. Now, why would you lie that we don’t, Jon?
“I have challenged several atheists to give me good reasons for why I should not be a Christian. To this point they have failed.”
how and why have they supposedly failed? Please do explain.
“I have asked numerous atheists about the resurrection of Jesus. A very common answer I receive is that no evidence exists for the resurrection. I know from my own research that very good evidence exists for the resurrection of Jesus. I have never received a good factually based argument from an atheist as to why I should not believe in the resurrection of Jesus.”
So, let’s take this again. What do you consider as “very good evidence”, Jon? Let me know and I’ll show how it isn’t.
“Some atheists avoid any information that does not conform to their world view. Many archeologists claim that the exodus occurred about 1250 BC. Then they say that because evidence does not exist in Egypt at 1250 BC then the Exodus did not occur. I don’t know why they claim the exodus happened in 1250 B.C. In my limited study of archeology I have found no good evidence for holding the view that the exodus occurred in 1250 B.C.
However, the Bible says that the exodus occurred about 1450 BC and we do find evidence for the exodus in Egypt at that time. I was discussing facts about the Exodus with an atheist, I brought up a piece of evidence. The atheist asked if that evidence came from a Christian. I said yes, he said he would not take the evidence seriously because it came from a Christian. Was this atheist serious about searching for truth?”
Who are these archaeologists? Your problem is that most archaeologists don’t think the exodus never happened at all.
And the bible mentions no dates at all (of course, you can show me where it does if you want to make that claim). It also doesn’t mention who the pharaoh was. Christians themselves can’t agree on who they want to claim as the pharaoh of the supposed “exodus”. You also have that there is no evidence for the exodus at *any* time claimed by believers. not one trash pit, not one latrine, not one grave, and this is despite the bible gives the supposed route taken.
” I have asked atheists for any proven scientific theories that bring Christianity into question. The response has always been silence. They seem to worship science but cannot use it to support their positions. Curious.”
this is also interesting since science shows that resurrection after being three days dead can’t happen. It also shows that animals didn’t suddenly appear in their current forms, which shows that the two contradictory creation stories also fail. Then we have the magic flood that Christians themselves can’t agree on, and the sciences shows that couldn’t happen as described either since the laws of physics don’t work that way.
“I wonder if some atheists are atheist because of the evidence or because they hate Christianity. I have read blogs where an atheist will search for mistakes made by Christians or search for Christians who do not live by the teaching of Jesus. They write blog post after blog post tearing down these Christians. This in no way demonstrates Christianity is false. It would be much like pointing out the evils of Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union and claiming all atheists are evil and that Stalin disproves atheism”
yep, it would be rather silly to try to lie about atheists when you have no evidence to support that particular lie equating atheism with Stalinism.
Now, Jon, which version of Christianity do you want to claim that atheists supposedly hate? Christians hate each other’s versions so which can we know is the supposed “right” one? You all claim to be living per the “teachings of Jesus” but all of you contradict each other on what those teachings actually are, and you all have the same evidence for your claims: none.
Showing how Christians can’t agree is indeed evidence that Christianity is false since not one of you can show that there is some TrueChristianity(tm) that has this god’s approval. That not one Christian can show that their version is the “right” one and that not one Christain can do what Jesus promised seems to indicate you are *all* frauds.
now, the question is if you’ll allow this post to appear in your comments. No matter, it will be seen on my own blog.
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Clubschadenfruede said, “So, let’s take this again. What do you consider as “very good evidence”, Jon? Let me know and I’ll show how it isn’t.”
Jon replied: There is a great deal of evidence for the resurrection. I think the resurrection best describes the events. I think evidence for resurrection shows that the resurrection occurred beyond a reasonable doubt.
What convinced me when I was doing the research, is that 10 of the original 12 disciples of died for their faith. Why would they be willing to die for a lie?
When we see evidence in the United States today for miracles, and if we believe God who is outside our universe is trying to reach us. A miracle of the resurrection make sense. A miracle is something outside the normal way things work in the universe or we would not recognize it as a miracle. If miracles like this were popping up everywhere, they would be natural and not a miracle. The resurrection is a miracle because it is outside the way things usually work. I do not expect this miracle to happen again until the end of the world when Jesus returns to earth.
Do you have a better explanation for the events that happened?
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So. For the claims of evidence for the resurrection, you give not one bit.
There is no evidence that the supposed events happed at all, so you are starting from a baseless assumption.
There is also no evidence the apostles even existed much less died for anything at all. People die for lies all of the time, witness the idiot Muslims who blow themselves up. It’s easy to claim someone died if they never existed or you need a way to account for where they went if you have no evidence anything happened at all. All you have are stories, and you need evidence to support those. Stories aren’t evidence for themselves.
Okay, you claim that there have been miracles here in the US. What are they, when did they happen and who are the witnesses? What evidence do you have?
And nope, miracles that ignore the laws of this universe wouldn’t become “natural” just from their number. You fail again with your attempt at an excuse.
That you can’t even show the resurrection occurred, you have no miracles at all. The events can’t be shown to have happened at all, so I need no explanation for made up nonsense, just like I have no need to explain how the Avengers fought aliens in New York City since that didn’t happen either.
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clubschadenfruede said, “There is also no evidence the apostles even existed much less died for anything at all.”
Jon replied: Perhaps I am too trusting of historical evidence. But I believe that Homer, Plato and Socrates existed and wrote. I find the evidence for the apostles existence and descriptions of their deaths stronger and more reliable than I find assertions historians have made about Homer, Plato and Socrates.
It appears to me that you are avoiding evidence that does not match your world view.
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Clubeschadenfruede said, “You also have that there is no evidence for the exodus at *any* time claimed by believers. not one trash pit, not one latrine, not one grave, and this is despite the bible gives the supposed route taken.”
Jon replied: When I was in college I was told by my professors that evidence did not exist in Egypt for the exodus. I was pleasantly surprised to find that my professors were wrong.
The absence of bones at gravesites for the generation of people who died also puzzles me. I will wait. I expect my questions will be answered. Just as supposed absence of evidence for the exodus in Egypt did not overcome my other reasons for believing in God, so also the seeming absence of bones, does not overcome the other evidence.
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And still no evidence for the silly “exodus”. Amazingly, you offer nothing, dear.
Yep, you’ll wait for “evidence” to show you right, and lie that there is evidence that has shown you right.
Alas your questions haven’t been answers for the last 2000+ years of Chrsitians desperately looking for evidence. It’s nothing surprising that a theist believes without evidence. You are nothing different than any Muslim, Hindu or other cultist.
It’s quite easy to know what happend to the bonces at gravesites for the generation of people who died. There was no generation, and no exodus at all. There was no gravesites, and surprise, despite the bible giving the route, nothign has been found.
it’s rather like watching a child saying that their questions about Santa will be answered so they’ll keep believing.
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Clubshadenfreude said, “It also shows that animals didn’t suddenly appear in their current forms, which shows that the two contradictory creation stories also fail. Then we have the magic flood that Christians themselves can’t agree on, and the sciences shows that couldn’t happen as described either since the laws of physics don’t work that way.”
I could write several lengthy blog posts about this statement. I will try to be brief.
Many Jews and Christians over that last 2000 years have considered the first 12 chapters of Genesis to be myth that is explaining truth.
For example: The flood story has many elements of truth and would indicate how people of that time would understand the events. At the end of the last ice the rapidly raising temperature caused to the oceans to raise hundreds of feet very rapidly. My memory may be wrong on the hundreds of feet, but it raised quickly many people were drowned. The flood story is also found in other cultures. It seems reasonable to believe that the flood story in Genesis is based on factual events.
Another example would be that often when new species appear it will be with in just a few million years. When you consider the amount of new information that is needed to create a new species that a few million years is just not enough time for the information to be created by chance.
The police when investigating deaths have methods for determining whether a person who died, died of natural causes or died of murder.
We can use similar methods to if an intelligent cause was behind new species. We can see that in fact an intelligent cause seems to be behind many things in our universe. The fine tuning of our universe. The origination of life. The origination of DNA. The origination of new species. The origination of awareness. The balance of gravity. And many other items.
Do you have scientific discoveries that have nullified Christianity? I find Darwinism for the creation of life and new species highly suspect as a theory. However in describing the diversification of a species into subspecies is very well described by Darwin.
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You could write as much as you want and you’d still be lying.
Yep, plenty of jews and Christians now have decided to claim that the genesis garbage is now “myth” or “symbolic”. That does quite a number on the claim that Jesus is a second Adam. If one is myth, no reason the other one is too.
The flood story has no elements of truth to it, from a hundreds of years old guy, to an incompetent boat, to attempts to claim everyone was evil but the boat still got built, to a 28,000+ foot deep flood. Your attempt to claim that the sea level rose hundred of feet in a short period is entirely false, and unsurprisingly, you didn’t even try to look that up. The flood story isn’t found in all other cultures, especially Egypt, and gee, those stories vary widely from the nosense in the bible. The reason that floods appear in many stories on why humans aren’t in some perfect world is that most civilizations arose near rivers. It’s easy to make a “magic super flood” just like it is easy to make a magic super human as a god.
And again, you have no idea what evolutionary theory says or how species form. There is no need for “new information”, and if there was new information, we have nothing to show that a few millions years isn’t just fine. And things don’t happy by just “chance”. There are limits on how physics works. Again, your willful ignorance and terror of new research destroys your nonsense aagain.
Yep, police have methods. So do paleontologists and archaeologists. It’s always so cute when Chrsitians try to discount those since they show that their myths aren’t true.
There is no evidence for intellignent design, aka creationism lies. You try to assume that since a watch is made by a human, a universe needs the same and gee you have no evidence at all. I am glad that you mention DNA since DNA fails often. So is your god a incompetent designer, condemning millions to misery since it couldn’t make this work right?
There is no fine-tuning either. That lie is common to theists, who can’t show that it exists. We have no idea how far off what we have that we’ll get the same thing. We also have that the vast majority of the universe is deadly to humans. What kind of stupid god would do that, even on this very planet? Gravity isn’t “balanced”. And we have no idea what causes consciousness, but we do know that if the brain is harmed or out of chemical balance, this consciousness changes, so no reason to think that there is some magical bit of nonsense living in there that was made by a god.
As usual, you fail, since you have no evidence at all. Yep, I do have scientific discoveries that show that have nullified Christianity. Funny how disease has nothing to do with some god’s “wrath”, and us humans have invented ways to cure these diseases.
You have demonstrated that you have no idea what evolutionary theory even says, so you claiming that “Darwinism” is suspect is just more ignorant lies. Evolutionary theory isn’t abiogenesis, so again, you show your ignorance. It would be just great if sometime a Christian didn’t attack things he won’t learn about and demonstrate that his objections are worthless.
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Club Shadenfruede said, “Your problem is that most archaeologists don’t think the exodus never happened at all.”
Jon replied: I do not see that as a problem, especially when these archaeologists are ignoring evidence. When new scientific discoveries are made usually most scientists disagree that the new theory is correct. Later the new theory can be accepted but then proven wrong with an even better theory. At that point we may have a situation again where most scientists disagree with the best theory.
An example would be the nature atoms and elections. Over the centuries we have had many theories. We still know very little of what can be known about atoms and electrons. I am sure in the future we will have better theories. As new theories appear scientists will argue about the merits and as we learn the theories will improve. As time passes more and more scientists will accept the best theory at the time.
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And now you lie about archaeologists in favor of a conspiracy theory. So, do tell about this evidence they are supposedly ignoring? Surely you can, right?
And no, that’s not how scientific discoveries work but nice lie.
We know lots about atoms and electrons, and as usual the Christan must keep himself ignorant of current science since it repeatedly shows no need for his god. We will indeed have better observations in the future but what we have now describes things accurately enough to work with electrons and atoms. Funny how Christians can’t do that with their god.
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Clubshadenfruede said, “Showing how Christians can’t agree is indeed evidence that Christianity is false since not one of you can show that there is some TrueChristianity(tm) that has this god’s approval. That not one Christian can show that their version is the “right” one and that not one Christain can do what Jesus promised seems to indicate you are *all* frauds.”
Jon replied: I’m sorry, I don’t think I follow your reasoning. Perhaps you can explain more.
Christians have disagreed since day one. Yet there is much agreement among many Christians. There is widespread belief among the gospels and many Christians, Jesus rose from the dead. I do not see that disagreement among Christians in any way suggests atheism.
I do not throw out science just because Scientists can’t agree 100% on anything. I think very useful knowledge can be from science.
I disagree about something with everyone I know. I have never agreed 100% with anyone. It seems to me that disagreement and negotiation is human. Loving disagreement and negotiation would be required of Christians. Finding a way to love our fellow Christians in spite of disagreement seems to me to be what Christianity is all about. If there is a God, why do you think he would force everyone to agree?
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You don’t follow my reasoning since you don’t want to. If you all claim a “truth”, and you can’t show that any of you have a “truth”, there is no reason to think that this “truth” exists.
Christian have indeed disagreed since day one. Which shows that your god is quite a moron in not being able to show which version is the right one. Why would I follow a god that even the believers can’t agree on?
You do throw out science, since you believe in magic. Alas, no scientist is saying that they have some “truth” that will result in some one being tortured forever.
No surprise that you agree 100% with people. It’s emblematic of wanting to pretend that you alone know the “truth”. Happily, we do have facts and not one of them supports Christianity being true, any of the many versions of it. Christians hate their fellow Christians, and contradict them. So your attempts to pretend that there is no problem fail. When you murder each other, it makes us on the outside just wonder at your cults.
Per the bible your god does force those he chose (damning the rest for no reason) to agree. And if there is one truth, then there is only one way to get to be saved. Or does your god want to make sure it can damn more people to eternal torture for getting things wrong?
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Clubschadenfruede said, “Showing how Christians can’t agree is indeed evidence that Christianity is false”
Jon replied: We have very different ways of looking at things. One of my best friends served in the Navy. He strongly believes he was doing what God wanted him to do. I have very strong convictions that a Christian should not serve in any military. Yet we are very good friends. I think it is amazing how Christians who disagree on very important issues can come together and love each other with deep friendships.
For me the disagreements I see between Christians has strengthened my faith in God.
The hatred I have seen between some who are not Christians in politics and race relations further strengthens my faith.
Yes you and I see this issue quite differently.
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clubSchadenfruede said,”how and why have they supposedly failed? Please do explain.”
Jon replied: I am still a Christian after hearing many athiest arguments.
I will give one example where I strongly felt my position was not understood and very clumsily addressed.
Jesus changed my life. I was depressed and terrified of death. I felt guilty about the many people I had harmed. I was unforgiving and bitter. I was praying the Lord’s Prayer. I felt as if Jesus whispered in my ear. Forgive “*Person I was angry with at that time*”. I said, I forgive him. Jesus took my depression and terror and guilt and unforgiveness. I was a changed. I felt that I knew with certainty that God existed and Jesus was his loving forgiving son. It has never been the same since.
Perhaps some people do not need an encounter with Jesus I did. Sigmund Freud said Religion is a crutch. I needed the crutch Jesus gives me to make it through this life.
Jean Paul Sarte, Stephen Hawking, Sam Harris and the new atheists are all smart guys, but I find their arguments less convincing every time I hear them.
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To be honest, atheists have no “position” or “world view” to defend specific to their atheism. They just don’t believe in God or gods. Give them good reasons and evidence to believe and stop a t tacking them for not believing. Your whole premise that they have a position or a world view that is specific to being an atheist is a straw man fallacy. Just preach the gospel. If they don’t believe, do as Jesus told the disciples “brush the dirt from your feet” and move on.
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Thank you for reading my blog post. Several people appreciate what I have to say. I am grateful to them. You are welcome to my blog anytime.
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I look forward to Part 2.
I have discovered many of the same things in my discussions with Atheists and Agnostics.
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Thank-you. I have been quite busy. It will probably continue until Christmas. It may be some time before I can publish Part 2.
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👌
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